Different Slants

Comment by Don Larson

February 18, 2007 @ 3:00 pm

An excellent commentary above, thank you.

Iraq is a mess. All America’s wars since WWII were (are) a mess. Each one in the future, and there will be more, will get into a quagmire as long we fight wars by following rules, laws, and treaties. Whoever came up with the idea that war can civilized was an idiot. That false concept is what perpetuates wars.

Nowadays, terrorists or proxy wars are fought against America because no country can withstand our military might in conventional terms. They know we follow the rules, leaving them to not follow rules and thereby create quagmires. What a waste of our people, our allies people, property, money, and time it is because of that foolish way to fight wars. Expect more stupid wars in the future just like the ones since WWII ended.

The basic reason in my mind why America is in the mess in the Middle East is because we support Israel. If we didn’t continue to support that country almost 60 years old to the extent we do, we might not have the problems we have now.

I can’t think of another example where the United Nations overstepped its bounds by carving out a new nation out of other countries territories to create a nation. It’s as if the United Nations carved out a section of America without the states/feds agreeing with the plan so that the rest of the planet was pleased with the idea.

At the time of the 1947 UN arrangement, Jerusalem was a neutral territory. It should still be a neutral spot to be in keeping with the 1947 agreement. Nobody should be allowed to own it. In any case, we shouldn’t be supporting any nation that claims it as its own. We shouldn’t because that isn’t the deal Truman agreed to in 1947.

Now Jerusalem is Ground Zero in a world that fights wars over the fact it isn’t neutral. Maybe a global force should go in there and take over and make it neutral again? It’s not that crazy an idea, no more crazy then the majority of the world carving up the surrounding disagreeing nations, creating a new one in their midst. We in the greater world are suffering for that single city’s existence by one party or another owning it.

It was a bad idea of President Truman alone to accept the recognition of Israel after its formation in 1948. That should have been a decision by the majority vote of Americans. Instead, he alone fertilized the seeds of all the problems since then between America and the Muslim nations of the world.

We are always sticking our nose into places in the world where we don’t belong. Truman started it back in the late 1940’s with that recognition, then he foolishly got us involved with Korea in 1950. He should have stayed out of both.

Nowadays, we are fighting terrorists all over the world. We are fighting an infection with a band-aid when we need a systemic solution. We fight political fights amongst ourselves here at home because the real issues aren’t dealt with. One-half of Americans are mad at the other half over Iraq or the War on Terror in general. And, Iran and Syria continue on without any real damage done to them. That’s totally screwed-up!!

Yeah, it’s a mess. America could have been out of all this nonsense if we didn’t have Truman who started it all. If we would have had political debates over his unwise policies and decisions before he took any action. But we didn’t and we will be dealing with messes for another 100 years.

I want to know what the Presidential candidates say about Iran and Syria. If the current crop of candidates wants to pull out or stay in Iraq, what do they think is the next step after that? Do any candidates think the Office of President should be second-guessed by Congress concerning Commander-and-Chief issues?

We can pull out of Iraq. We can come back home from the Middle East. We can bring all troops home from Korea, Japan, Italy, Germany, etc. Then what?

We can stop protecting other nations of the world with our fleets. We can stop participating in police actions and United Nations “peace keeping” missions. We can stop trying to foster or install democracy all over the world. We can stop foreign aid. We can do all those things. Then what?

Who’s to say what is the right formula to bring peace in the world to America? I know diplomacy doesn’t work. The UN on security matters is a joke! In every war in history, diplomacy preceded every war.

It’s not just a mess in Iraq, it’s mess all over the world. And we “play” at fixing things. Americans are dying almost every day. Civilians and military are dying. You may die, I may die, and nothing is effectively done to stop those causing it.

So go ahead and pull out of Iraq, or add another 100,00 troops there. It doesn’t matter. Because the next bullshit situation is right around the corner as long as we fight back with rules. As far as I can tell, Truman has been President the last 60 years…

Don

Comment by RGM

February 19, 2007 @ 10:23 am

Don,

More important than how we fight wars, is the issue of why we go to war. Sometimes, it is clearly self-defense as in the case of Afganiststan but, more often, the reasons are less clear. I think we have created such a powerful military capacity, and at such great expense, that no president can resist the urge to use it. Eisenhower warned us about the dangers of the “military-industrial complex” and we need to heed his warning.

RGM

Comment by Don Larson

February 19, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

Rick,

Before we ask why we go to war, we should ask, why do we need to be involved?

In so many cases, since the end of WWII we should have not been involved. American Presidents and the Legislature ran amok trying to force democracy down the throats of other countries. Or trying to buy-off country leaders around the globe for our economy’s sake.

We should be more like Switzerland and let the rest of the world revolve around on its own.

Then if and when we are threatened, we should fight to win, without rules.

We can’t be so involved in the world and expect not to be at war. Being deeply involed and being at war are co-joined twins that cannot be separated.

Had we stayed out of the political problems in the Middle East, had we stayed out of the political problems in the Far East, had we traded without the foolish concept of trade restrictions based on “human rights”, America would be far better off and more than likely at peace.

We made bad decisions in the past to be involved when it was none of our business and we still do that.

Americans will be fighting with each other about the ancillary effects of bad decisions like “being deeply involved” and “being at war” until the time comes when we let go of matters we should stay out of, and fight (militarily) to win on matters we should.

All the best thoughts in the world won’t change a thing on the ground until Americans understand that principle, in my humble opinion.

When enough Americans have died someday, perhaps we, as a country, will understand how to behave better. I’m afraid that day, if it ever comes, is so far distant, it is less than a dream.

Having said all that, I know where your heart is and how troubling America’s problems are to you.

I for one think if we had been “at peace” (using my definition) for the last 60 years, our economy would be so strong all through those years, we could have funded the United Nations Global Programs of Health, Housing, Education, and, Food and made tremendous progress towards eliminating the reasons for war across the globe.

Instead, we chose unwisely to be globally involved in other ways, wasteful ways, ways not to our benefit. It’s a long dark road ahead for America now. We’ll be fighting for decades and so will much of the rest of the world.

If you think the 2008 National Election is dramatic, think about the 2010 midterms and the 2012 and 2016 National Elections. All that chaos will be broadcast all over the world. It’s not a sign of strength, it’s a sign of weakness and the enemies of America will take the opportunity to strike back at us, without following the rules.

And all these older people in the current Legislature and candidates for President will be out of office by 2012, or at most by 2016. Those Americans voting then will have very serious issues to consider, far more serious, with far more impact than this “little squabble” about a small country called Iraq.

I believe you and I are in the final few years where “civil” conversations about America’s problems can be held. Most blogs about politics are places of no tolerance today! By 2012, I figure civil political discussion will be almost gone, replaced by extremist positions of stalemate.

I thank President Truman again for starting America down the wrong road after WWII. You say President Eisenhower warned us against the “military-industrial complex”, and he did. I think Truman set the stage for that situation with his really poor ideas about America’s place in the world back in 1947. It’s a simple case of cause-and-effect with terrible consequences decades later.

Don