Different Slants

Seeing the World from a New Angle

Kill Thy Neighbor; Contemplating The Insanity of Attacking Viet Nam and Iraq…..by Robert M. Katzman

Filed under: Uncategorized — Bob at 3:37 pm on Sunday, January 28, 2007

I’ve thought quite a bit about Viet Nam, the war I missed, the men and women who went there, and how much chaos and pain were inflicted on both countries by what I’ve grown to understand, since 1968 when I was eighteen, was a totally unnecessary war.

Just like Iraq is today.

People in Washington make political decisions about the fate of foreign countries, usually much smaller than the United States. What will fly in the Congress?…What the voters will buy…How will America’s leaders’ decisions affect their own electability and also will it hurt their Party’s ability to retain control of the Congress?

Simple questions, really, posed by extraordinarily experienced, highly educated, worldly politicians…overwhelmingly men who, safe in their bubble of leadership, send hundreds of thousands of America’s young soldiers across vast oceans to trap and kill hundreds of thousands of technologically inferior young men of another religion, color or political philosophy…and also their defenseless families.

These same deep-thinkers could instead send these same soldiers to repair our own crumbling bridges, or roads, without anyone shooting at them while they do that work. They could build new schools and hire excellent educators in poor areas of this country for a fraction of the cost of blowing up and rebuilding those same bridges, roads and schools in countries thousands of miles away.

Whatever your political inclination, those kinds of budget decisions are fiscally ridiculous. Same for hospitals, medical research and even saving disintegrating American nitrate film classics from the twenties. Art matters too. How smart, how visionary, can our leaders be to piss away our finite resources in such a lethal venture, where no matter what we do, the recipients in those countries will hate us for certain and most likely try to kill as many of the invaders of their countries as possible.

As very likely we too would do, with enormous popular enthusiasm to anyone who invaded the USA to tell us how to live, change our laws, imprison our young men, trample our religions, blow up our infrastructure and choose our leaders. Why is this such a difficult concept for our government to foresee?

Am I talking about Viet Nam?

Or Am I talking about Iraq?

How could you tell the difference?

The Vietnamese were as entiled to their civil war as the United States was to its own Civil War in 1861. Are we the judges of mankind? Did people, like my own family, flee their original countries soley for the intent to go back overseas and blow up whoever and wherever they wanted, whenever the mood struck them? I think, not likely.

I think money is the major reason industrial companies and soulless, shortsighted poitical leaders decide we should go overseas ro kill people who can’t defend themselves. How is it those primitive people kill us so efficently, anyway? If Americans don’t think oceans of money are a good enough reason to fight a war, they should elect leaders who philosophically, morally and financially have their heads screwed on correctly.

Republican leaders have acted like this.

Democratic leaders have acted like this.

I think people who may have a clearer, less explosive idea for governing for the benefit of the people in THIS country should gather together and elect leaders who will take care of our own many underfunded problems, first, before they think about starting a war to distract the voters and then kill their voter’s children.

How many children of Democrats were killed in Viet Nam under President Johnson? How many children of Republicans were and are being killed in Iraq? I guess those kids will never grow up to elect more Republicans and Democrats, will they? Not very clear thinking by the leaders of both of those dominant political partys, is it?

Am I saying this too symplistically?

No, I’m not.

I have four children, from ages ten to thirty-two. How many of them should die for their country, the way thousands of other parent’s children haved died or are dying daily, to control the fates of faraway little countries?

None of my kids should die for that. And none of anyone else’s kids, either. And no defenseless child in any of those little countries should ever look up in the sky, in horror, to see if:

The Americans are coming!!

The Americans are coming!!

Here are some numbers I discovered when I became more curious about the way we allow our leaders to kill our children:

The USA lost in Viet Nam, as best they could be counted, a total of 58,193 people. The Air Force’s losses were 2,584. Army’s were 38,209. Navy’s were 2,555. Marine’s lost 14,838 and the tiny Coast Guard, 7.

There were 382 suicides during the War and 234 murders. Twelve of our dead were Moslems and eleven were Quakers. Eight were women. The improvement in equality for women in the United States, a fabulous idea, will no doubt change that last statistic in our current war in Iraq.

(Update: As of 5/24/07, 81 women of many different ranks have died in Iraq. 75 from the US, 5 from the UK and 1 from The Ukraine. That represents slightly more than 2% of the 3,434 deaths of all the invading forces of the coalition. I regret all the deaths, but that number representing female fighters won’t freeze where it is)

My thanks to Don Larson for his help in unearthing these most recent statistics. He is a good example of a person with very different views than mine, on some things, but we can and do respect each other. That’s the way it ought to be.

Seven states bore the brunt of the US death toll: California, 5,573; New York, 4,121; Texas, 3.414; Pennsylvania, 3,144; Ohio, 3,096; Illinois, 2,984; Michigan, 2,654. Total: 24,937 or about 43% 0f the 58, 193 that died.

To the parents of those dead children, or their wives, brothers, sisters, kids and their friends, I mourn your loss. I respect your children, their bravery and their sacrifice. I just wish all of them were still alive in this country living here with you and making the United States a better place. There is no disrespect in my wishing that for the people whom I’m sure you loved, as i love my family.

As for the now united Viet Nam, where United States Corporations do ever more business every month, who marvel at that country’s ancient culture and endlessly photograph its truly beautiful cities, towns and beaches? Would that country, so friendly and inviting to us now, and with so many expatriote Vietnamese living in America today, be better off if our own and other country’s forces hadn’t killed approximately, since no one will ever know with any real certainty, 1,100,000 soldiers and the estimated 900,000 to 4,000,000 civilians?

What do think?

Why are the Vietnamese, an ancient people, so charming and inviting now, and yet were so hateful and deadly forty years ago? I guess it depends on whatever our government tells us. Or what we choose to believe.

Think about it.

Note: I want to express my appreciation to Robert Munden for his assistance in gathering the statistics I used in this story. His skill with a computer far exceeds mine, and his cheery attitude makes him a pleasure to work with. Thanks, Robert!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Note from the Author:

 

Robert M. Katzman, owner of Fighting Words Publishing Company, with four different titles currently in print and over 4,000 books sold to date, is seeking more retail outlets for his vivid and non-fiction inspirational books: 

 

Independent bookstores, Jewish and other religious organizations, Chicago historical societies or groups, English teachers who want a new voice in their class who was a witness to history, book clubs, high schools or museum gift shops.  I will support anyone who supports me by giving readings in the Chicago Metro area.  I have done this over 40 times, and I always sign my books, when asked.  Everyone, positively everyone, asks.  I was amazed, at first, by that.

 

Individuals who wish to order my books can view the four book covers and see reviews of them at www.FightingWordsPubco.com 

 

There are links to YouTube and podcasts, as well.  Or, anyone can call me directly at (847) 274-1474.  Googling my name will also produce all kinds of unusual results.  That other Robert M. Katzman, now deceased, whose name will also appear and who also published, was a doctor.  He actually bought one of my books!  Such a nice man.  Rest in peace, Dr. Katzman.

 

There will be short poems, stories and essays published in this space every two weeks by either myself or my co-blogist Richard G. Munden, or both.  If you find our postings thought provoking, moving or even amusing, please tell others to come view this site.  We will find our strength in your numbers.

 

 Next year, I will publish my fifth book, a collection of my best poetry and essays, called,

                                         

        I Seek the Praise of Ordinary Men

 

Individuals who know of independent bookstores that might be interested in a rough-hewn guy like me, who ran a chain of newsstands for 20 years in Chicago, please tell them about my books, will you?  I am partial to independent bookstores, having owned two, myself, until my last one was killed by the giant chains, in 1994. I still miss it. 

 

I’m also looking to find someone who would want to make a play out of some of my stories in the Chicago area, so I could go there and do some readings sometimes.  I think there’s enough honest sex, drugs and rock n’ roll to hold anyone’s interest, as well as a lot of authentic dialogue from ordinary people in extraordinary situations.  I think the plays would work anywhere, frankly, in some intimate theater with talented actors.

             

 

5 Comments »

58

Comment by Don Larson

January 28, 2007 @ 7:31 pm

I totally agree that the War in Vietnam was unnecessary.

Before we joined in that civil war, none of the Vietnamese people were shouting “Death to America”, nor trying to bring death to Americans.

No mater how many Vietnamese would be killed in the civil war, it was none of our business to use force to stop it. America is not and should not be the police force for the world.

Any American that thinks we should be a police force is free to say goodbye to their family and take up arms to go overseas protect whatever they think needs protection. But as an individual, not as a person in American uniform representing a policy of our nation. Best wishes to them.

This is true of places like Korea (early 1950’s), Vietnam (1960’s and 70’s), Bosnia (early 1990’s), Somalia (1994), Beirut (1983), Darfur (present). The list goes on…

The War on Terror is another matter. It was brought upon us, we have to fight.

There is a valid argument about wether we should have invaded Iraq or not. That argument continues in our country.

I don’t believe in occupation. Just vanquish our enemies that threaten us and leave. No nation building, no spending of billions there we could use here.

We should have left Iraq immediately when we didn’t find the WMD’s we thought were there. Without apologies to anyone.

America will continue to be attacked in many ways because we are perceived to be at the top of the chain. Sometimes, we promote ourselves as being at the top of the chain. We get involved in global situations that we need not be involved in at all.

We should learn to stay out of situations where our direct national security is not threatened.

We should defend ourselves, including using overwhelming force (of any and all means at our disposal) to eliminate direct threats against our nation where our security is involved. This includes preemptive attacks to eliminate such threats using whatever approach will bring about the vanquishing in the shortest and cheapest way. Use your imagination!

I do not believe the United Nations can protect any nation. In security matters, that organization is a pitiful joke. That has been in my opinion that way since 1970.

The United Nations can do good work in the areas of medicine, housing, education, birth control, and shelter. But in matters of war, it is useless. Nation states already know from centuries past how to build alliances to make war or defend against war.

Regardless of our individual views, the War on Terror will go on for many decades. What we are involved with now are only the preliminaries. Much worse is ahead for all involved, especially for the nation states in the Middle East that promote terrorism.

Diplomacy will never stop terrorism. If that policy worked, it would have worked in the past and prevented 09/11/2001. For me, terrorist nations had the opportunity to express their views in peaceful ways up until that day. After 9/11, all the talking with terrorists is over in my mind. They don’t deserve a dialog. They deserve to be vanquished in war along with every one of their supporters large or small.

One last point…

America should not try to export Democracy as a matter of national policy (the Peace Corp. and alike notwithstanding). We don’t know how to do that at all. We need to work on our own form of Democracy here and let other nations run whatever way they want. As long as they don’t directly threaten us on security issues, leave them alone.

Our leaders should have known this before we got involved in Vietnam. They didn’t or they ignored it. America still hasn’t learned that lesson yet.

Don

59

Comment by RGM

February 2, 2007 @ 7:17 pm

I see fewer parallels between the wars in Viet Nam and Iraq. Many people in power believed in what was called the “domino theory” which said that if Viet Nam fell to the communists, all of Asia would follow. They also believed and communism and capitalism were incompatible and could not peacefully coexist over time.

I doubt anyone in power really believed that Iraq was a credible threat to the US or anyone else. I will refrain from speculation as to the actual motives for starting the war but, as was the case with Viet Nam, lies were used to garner support for it.

60

Comment by Don Larson

February 2, 2007 @ 8:29 pm

RGM,

Lies will always be told for almost any cause. It’s up to mature people to be wise enough to know a lie when they see it. Then they have a choice, to be offended by the lie told by another or to go along with the lie.

Then again, I don’t know if I’ve been told any lies in the War on Terror. I don’t know that I need 100% of proof in order to support an attack on any nation that is threatening to America. The principle of “beyond a reasonable doubt” works for me.

Truth hasn’t won any wars in my lifetime either.

I still find it curious that it was the Japanese that actually attacked America in WWII; yet, America decided the Germans needed to be defeated first. It was a winning strategy then.

Did you know that the British Cabinet under Winston Churchill almost voted to accept a Peace Treaty with Germany? That 50% of the Cabinet wanted to accept the terms and let Hitler take all of Europe and leave Great Britain alone? It wasn’t until Churchill gave his “Finest Hour” speech, that the Cabinet came together and rejected the Peace Treaty proposal. Imagine the state of the world today had they accepted that treaty…

Wars are fought for a variety of reasons. Wars are perpetuated (in my humble opinion) because (some) nations follow the “Rules of War” and others don’t. It’s as if those that follow the rules are trying to make war “nice”. I think the terrorists and the terrorist supporting nations believe they can ignore the rules of war and gain a significant advantage in doing so. In many ways, they are winning the war because they do.

Meanwhile Americans lose their lives in many spots of the world due to terrorists and insurgents. I have yet to see one scratch inflicted on Iran or Syria for their terrorist support that kills our people. I have beyond a reasonable doubt about them for a long time.

At some point, I believe America will do what needs to be done to win the War on Terror. We could do so tomorrow if we had the will as a nation to win, but we would rather follow the “rules of war” and end up fighting amongst ourselves over the status of the war while the death count rises for civilians and military folks. In that way, it’s a lot like the Vietnam War years when the arguments were a whole lot more ferocious than today.

If we lose the War on Terror, this world will enter a Dark Ages and never come out. None alive after that will ever know we lost by following the rules of war. No one alive will care…

Don

61

Pingback by Viet - Viet » Some Thoughts About Viet Nam and Iraq

February 9, 2007 @ 9:46 pm

[…] Nam, the war I missed, the men and women … How many children of Democrats were killed in Viet Nam under Johnson? … The USA lost in Viet Nam, as best they could be counted, a total of 58193 people. … – Read More – […]

62

Comment by Don Larson

February 11, 2007 @ 2:27 pm

Well, females were considered adults by most states at age 18 during Viet Nam. Males were considered adults at age 21 in most states. My point being, that was the last U.S. war where children were sent to fight.

In Iraq, only adults who volunteer to serve go to fight. There are no “children” or kids there as part of the U.S. military to fight. All of them are 18 or older.

I don’t agree with the way America fights wars, except when we are bombing the shit out of the enemy. We often have too narrow a definition of who the enemy is, in my humble opinion. We use outdated concepts of who is an enemy.

As long as we do that, we will suffer causalities at a higher rate than needed because the enemy will use our reluctance to redefine the enemy to their advantage.

No matter if war was declared by Congress, supported by every American alive, brave Americans would be dying because of outdated concepts of who the enemy is.

We need new definitions and change from the old ways to fight wars. Or else, we should just accept that Americans will die needlessly when we fight.

So when an American dies in the service of our country, he/she should be respected for the sacrifice they made by placing themselves in harm’s way because of an outdated definition they probably believed.

Don

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